SULLA observed, " The guy is not wounded; he is a bastard. No need to shoot him."
Clearly, he is future elder material.
Nathan Natas
JoinedPosts by Nathan Natas
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18
The Disfellowshipping Arrangement, New Book, Hope It Helps
by graysome67 inhello, i renounced my belief/faith in the watchtower society a few years ago, though i am still a bible believer.
since departing from them, i have studied the bible aptly to try to understand it's true teachings.
i decided to start publishing essays in the hope that my research may help enlighten other disillusioned jw's by seeing alternative viewpoints, or at least pointing them in a direction that would help unlock their minds when studying the bible.
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18
The Disfellowshipping Arrangement, New Book, Hope It Helps
by graysome67 inhello, i renounced my belief/faith in the watchtower society a few years ago, though i am still a bible believer.
since departing from them, i have studied the bible aptly to try to understand it's true teachings.
i decided to start publishing essays in the hope that my research may help enlighten other disillusioned jw's by seeing alternative viewpoints, or at least pointing them in a direction that would help unlock their minds when studying the bible.
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Nathan Natas
I want to commend you for finding a way to publish your ideas without charging an-arm-and-a-leg for the book.
The situation you describe from your former congregation is an example of how Watchtower policies result in a miscarriage of justice (no pun intended). The rapist should have been taken into a back alley by a few true elders and righteously crippled for what he did; instead he go off on the "technicality" that he was an unbaptized publisher while the child he raped paid in full for being seduced. I think I might also have questioned the girl's parents who obviously did an inadequate job teaching her. Instead, they get to self-fighteously shun the child they failed to train.
I am no longer a bible beviever like you, but before I left the JWs I was an MS. (The conversion to non-believer did not happen instantaneously while I was on the road away from Tarsus, but over many years of personal questing and introspection.) If I recall correctly, the congregational reproval is supposed to be PUBLIC, in front of the entire congregation. Only in the Old-Testament legalisms of Rutherford's brain could the star chamber be turned into a mark of "the only true religion."
I wish you well.
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630
SAD news about OOMPA......
by redredrose inour friend, oompa, has passed away.
just recieved the news a couple of hours ago, and have almost no details.
it happened today or yesterday, he took his own life.
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Nathan Natas
For the benefit of those who might read this in the future this is the newspaper notice that Eric Reeder's family had printed (the link will eventually evaporate)
"ERIC REEDER
Obituary GREENSBORO — Eric Reeder, 51, died Thursday, September 27, 2012.
Cremation services entrusted to Triad Cremation Society, Inc.
Published in News Record on September 30, 2012 -
47
"Safeguard Your Mind" assembly targeting apostate thinking
by promised_presence ini recently attended the second day of the 2 day assembly for safeguarding your mind.
the first talk was entitled "feed your mind at jehovah's table".
the first portion of this talk specifically targeted apostates warning members to not listen to them "even if they were once strong in the truth or had great responsiblity in the congregation".
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Nathan Natas
Ah! At last, as the sacred month of October approaches, The Watchtower has come out with a HALLOWEEN THEME for the meetings!
Let us recall with fondness Pastor Russell's Toga Costume when he gave up his ghost on Halloween 1916 - it was HEAVENLY!
"Safeguard Your Mind - Zombies Crave Fresh Brainz"! The opening song will be Brother Michael Jackson singing THRILLER.
" It's close to midnight and something evil's lurking in the dark
Under the moonlight, you see a sight that almost stops your heart
You try to scream but terror takes the sound before you make it
You start to freeze as horror looks you right between the eyes
You're paralyzed
'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
And no one's gonna save you from the 'postate 'bout strike
You know it's thriller, thriller night
You're fighting for your life inside a killer, thriller tonight
You hear the door slam and realize there's nowhere left to run
You feel the cold hand and wonder if you'll ever see the sun
You close your eyes and hope that this is just imagination, girl!
But all the while you hear the creature creeping up behind
You're out of time
'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
There ain't no second chance against the thing with forty eyes, girl
Thriller, thriller night
You're fighting for your life inside a killer, thriller tonight
Night creatures calling, the dead start to walk in their masquerade
There's no escaping the jaws of the alien this time
(They're open wide)
This is the end of your life
They're out to get you, there's demons closing in on every side
[- From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/m/michael-jackson-lyrics/thriller-lyrics.html -]
They will possess you unless you change that number on your dial
Now is the time for you and I to cuddle close together, yeah
All through the night I'll save you from the terror on the screen
I'll make you see
That this is thriller, thriller night
'Cause I can thrill you more than any ghost would ever dare try
Thriller, thriller night
So let me hold you tight and share a
Killer, diller, chiller, thriller here tonight
'Cause this is thriller, thriller night
Girl, I can thrill you more than any ghost would ever dare try
Thriller, thriller night
So let me hold you tight and share a killer, thriller, ow!
(I'm gonna thrill ya tonight)
Darkness falls across the land
The midnight hour is close at hand
Creatures crawl in search of blood
To terrorize y'alls neighborhood
I'm gonna thrill ya tonight, ooh baby
I'm gonna thrill ya tonight, oh darlin'
Thriller night, baby, ooh!
The foulest stench is in the air
The funk of forty thousand years
And grizzly ghouls from every tomb
Are closing in to seal your doom
And though you fight to stay alive
Your body starts to shiver
For no mere mortal can resist
The evil of the thriller" -
33
How do we get to 1914 and then 1919?
by God_Delusion inokay, this might sound like a really stupid question, but after researching this matter for the last hour, i still have no idea why the watchtower society points to 1914 and 1919 using the 70 weeks theory.. don't get me wrong, i know all about 607 b.c.e., but i am having trouble understanding why the prophecy of the 70 weeks has been added.
whose idea was it to add the 70 week business into the mix?.
i've researched the following websites and jwn threads so far, yet i'm still hitting blanks:.
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Nathan Natas
This is an EXCELLENT discussion, folks! It reminds me of what this board was like a decade ago! I'm really am loving it!
A reminder to the players - yes, of course almost all of us now recognize the "Bible-based chronology" as pure bullshit, but what we want to do here is extract the Watchtower "reasoning from the scriptures" so that we can then shine a bright light on that pretzel logic with all it's "and then something magical happened" leaps of faith... a fine example of this is the Watchtower's claim that the distance (expressed in furlongs) between the Pittsburg Bible House and Brooklyn Bethel (following a specific route) had scriptural significance. I'll bet not a Dub alive today can tell you how many furlongs were involved, what the route was, or what they "proved."
Well done, everybody!
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Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception
by Indian Larry inplease post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.
my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.
i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.
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Nathan Natas
...oh, one more thought.
Lots of JWs hold that members of the governing body are imperfect men who are infallable in matters of doctrine. That's a fun topic. They will tell you that this is true for the WTB&TS and untrue for the Roman Catholic Church. Mix that with the theory of "new light" and you have a real wrasslin' match on your hands.
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Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception
by Indian Larry inplease post any examples of clear cut watchtower deception.
my wife does not believe that the watchtower would purposely decieve her.
i need clearcut examples of deception of by the wtbts.
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Nathan Natas
JWs are taught to accept any change as a progressive revelation (new light). What would your wife accept as proof that would not cause the "new light reflex" to kick in? I think this varies from person to person; some are completely incapable of admitting they've been deceived. This is not an uncommon psychology - it is very common for investors to ride their "hot stocks" right down to $0.00 rather than cut their losses, admit they were wrong, and live to see another day.
Maybe it would be helpful to find out what she believes the WTB&TS has that makes it "The TRUYH". Some think that the WTB&TS is the faithful & discreet slave." Some think the WTB&TS "predicted" 1914. Some think that the JWs aversion to war makes them special.
NONE of those claims are legitimate.
First find out your wife's key concepts about the Watchtower, then find out what her definition of PROOF is. Then make your case and hope that she has the strength of character to accept that she has been duped.
The book CAPTIVES OF A CONCEPT does a marvelous job bursting the "FDS" myth, by the way.
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630
SAD news about OOMPA......
by redredrose inour friend, oompa, has passed away.
just recieved the news a couple of hours ago, and have almost no details.
it happened today or yesterday, he took his own life.
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Nathan Natas
Damn.
I didn't know OOPMPA; it was here that I learned that his name was Eric, that he lived in North Carolina, that he was 51 years old and that he hanged himself.
He sufferred greatly by being associated with a mind-control cult, but his own most recent posts suggest that it was perhaps the economy that drove him to this irrevocable tragic act.
About a month ago he wrote:
"...i am finding the adjustment to the real world far more difficult than i ever imagined... HOW have YOU done at replacing lifelong friends and family? to make things worse i have no siblings nor aunts uncles nor cousins as both my parents were only children too...and of course i never kept up with high school friends like most jws...so i have a TINY support system going here... and is anybody now way too afraid of getting old??? IT SUCKS!!!... so much loss and pain...that i even thought of a last dich effort to save my marriage by going back to the...gag...kindom hall! so now u know i am really really struggling...ugh..it would kill me just to try and i would wear the purple H deservedly...but my life would be soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much easier and wealthier and omg would get a wonderful wife back....in case nobody rememers i have always said she walks on water...but stubbon and unreasoning...omg...
this is more than just a whine...i am increasingly challanged and am having serious thoughts about going back for some stability i need in my life....but part of me thinks i would die inside...i may be at a crossroads....amazingly an old jw childhood friend who went to bethel and came a few years later and became a ragin apostate (johnny held)...he has been out like 30 years and has ome back....now i hear he was attending for THREE YEARS before they let him back in....mine would be five at least lol....actually i am crying inside..
and talk about bad luck i just lost my biggest customer and had to lay off four good employees today....im lower than low..."
I don't know what business he was in, and it is clear that he needed a larger group of friends and family than he had.
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Did Abraham Have Schizophrenia? Hearing A Voice Telling Him To Sacrifice Isaac?
by frankiespeakin inwell if someone came to you saying they were going to sacrifice one of thier children to god because god spoke to them telling them to do so what would you conclude?
would you tell him to be faithfull to the voice and do it so they can become god's friend like abraham was?.
http://www.voiceofdharma.org/books/pp/ch2.htm.
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Nathan Natas
People are best judged with conideration of their TIME And PLACE. I do not believe a historical "Abraham" ever existed. I believe he is a fictional character created by the real and anonymous writers of the Bible. However it may be, Abraham is supposed to have been born about 1900 BC according to people who like Usher's (not the musician, the theologian) chronology.
The Bible story tells us that in Abraham's world, child sacrifice was not uncommon. Baal and his crew like baby back bbq.
Abraham was not a modern post-renaissance man, he was a wandering goatherder, with a goatherder's grasp of the world and his place in it.
So I would not say he was crazier than his neighbors who gave their children to "the gods." Death in that sandbox hellhole was paradise compared to the realities of day-to-day survival.
Another view is that just as the story of Cain and Abel showed the dawn of agriculture over a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, so the story of Abraham showed that man moved from sacrificing his children to "the gods" to sacrificing animals. This small change in mindset made it more likely that mankind would persist on earth, otherwise known as Deathworld.
That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it unless Leolaia or Farkel can convince me otherwise.
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The Divine Termination of the Marital Arrangement - I need an old timer
by Bonnie_Clyde ini talked about this on gophers post about you cannot live forever on paradise earth, but thought i would start a separate one as i need an old timer who can remember attending a witness wedding in the 1950s.
gopher asked
: what happens if the earth (in such a paradise) reaches the point of overpopulation, meaning there are not enough food and other resources available for continued growth?
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Nathan Natas
From 1932, Bible Expert Judge Rutherford discourses on "HOME AND HAPPINESS" in paper or as e-book:
